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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 54 post(s) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
763
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Posted - 2012.06.27 22:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I remember most of the rage was over three things:
The leaked "greed is good" article form the internal CCP newsletter, implying that, via the Nex store, Eve would become Pay To Win.
The leaked e-mail from the CCP CEO telling everyone at CCP that the Incarna was a wonderful expansion, and the small amount of protest form the players was expected and meaningless.
That Incarna contained far less content than expected, despite the months of effort put into it, along with the small amount of work concurrently done to the spaceship side.
What I think we need now is balanced development of both in space and in station content. The resource division should be along the lines of player preference. If players would spend 10% of their time (averaged over all players) doing WiS stuff, then 10% of new feature development effort should be devoted to WiS.
An odd way to do this is allow every player to vote with their subscription money. Say $1 of each months subscription goes to new feature development (the rest is bug fixing, feature iteration, server maintenance, rent on the building, paying the cleaning crew, and so on). Each player can decide how their $1 is allocated, and that is what CCP spends it on. That way if you do not like WiS, you can be sure none of your subscription money is spent on it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
763
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Posted - 2012.06.27 23:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Supposedly there is a "Team Avatar" (5 people) working on something, and a Dev blog about it that is finished, but its publishing got delayed by the UI mess.
The few Dev comments we have gotten is it will involve cooperative game play in a hostile environment. Something like we saw in one of the trailers with people in space suits exploring ruins. I presume part of the "cooperative" part is having protection so your ship does not get stolen while you are walking about. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
763
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Posted - 2012.06.27 23:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Serious question: why are you not doing these things in Second Life or some other such 'social gameplay' environment?
Because I want to play a "complete Sci Fi simulation" game. One with ships, industry, a market, territory conquest, and people walking about. No other game is as close to this as Eve is.
How many Sci Fi movies or TV shows are there that do have spaceships, but do not have people walking about?
Fake edit: Recently with all the forum rage over locking threads, some people pointed out that many forum posts are part of the meta-game, to demoralize or confuse the enemy making it easier to win wars. It seems to me that avatars interacting in a station environment could be used for exactly that same purpose. We will not be able to fight in there, so interaction with the enemy will be a war of typed words. But with no CCP moderation. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
772
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Posted - 2012.06.28 18:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
12 months+ after the go-ahead is a long time.
I remember seeing files that included the term "establishments" being downloaded to my client around the time of the Incarna expansion (maybe to just the Sisi version of the client, do not remember exactly). That would seem to say there are WiS assets in existence. It sure would be nice to get something, anything, sooner. Especially if there are assets already mostly done that could be pushed out relatively quickly. Even just basic player owned bars where all you could do is gamble and role play.
Please let up out the door. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
781
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Posted - 2012.06.29 17:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
It occurred to me that these "hazardous exploration sites" may end up being the first area in the game where walking avatars can interact with each other. This brings up the odd idea that these sites could be kept from de-spawning (by keeping at least one person there) and used by role players as meeting areas.
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
785
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Posted - 2012.07.02 13:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:Shandir wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better? We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures. That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Sounds like there are ways for pilots to die in these structures. Presumably you have some ideas on what the consequences of death are, and how it will work both gameplay-wise, and lore-wise? Please share these ideas with us. We do have various ideas regarding death within a site as there will indeed be dangers for you to overcome, including other players. (if we, Team Avatar, get our way) Here are some: 1. Death will be like the standard pod kill death but then that leads to the issue where your ship is still docked at the site. 2. You enter sites with a clone rather than your actual avatar. 3. You enter sites with crew members rather than clones. These are just a few as there are multiple ways we can address this issue, but the actual designing of these features is obviously still to be started in earnest. On a little side note, the posts I've seen so far in regards to pvp only mention the actual combat, but the sandbox nature of this WiS gameplay could also allow for strangers in sites to work together, rather than annihilate each other with extreme violence. This could lead to some interesting initial stand offs.
I think the issue here is for option 1: If we die without being in a pod with its brain scanner, why are we not permanently dead?
Also: Any purely social areas would need far far less needed assents in place before being added to the game. I hope, not so much you do them both, but you can do pure social areas first, and much sooner. You can promote it not as an expansion, but a technology test, to see what issues multi-avatar areas have before the actual game play content is released. Also, they will have whatever content we players create. Social interaction is arguably the most important content in the game.
I also hope that a version of the exploration content will be in high sec. Less danger, less reward, but it will allow more players to use it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
785
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Posted - 2012.07.02 15:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
If we use option 2 (soft clone, drone clone) there could be a module in your ship that makes and delivers these clones. You would target lock the structure you want to explore and activate the module. If it did not have a clone stored, it makes one. Either way, it then delivers it to the structure. Making a new clone would cost a unit of transcranial microcontrollers, synthetic synapses, and biomass. Death comes with a cost. If you make it out alive, you do not need to have the clone maker make a new one next time.
Purely social areas would tie into FiS content. Entire null sec alliances have failed and collapsed as a result of social interaction. Its hard to imagine a bigger tie-in to FiS. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
785
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Posted - 2012.07.02 15:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:See: Dust 514 Cloning tech. Entirely different tech. We are not DUSTies. If we get killed outside of the capsule, our only recourse is a backup ("soft") clone that only contains memories (hint: SP) up to the point the backup was made - a time-consuming backup given the need to not destroy the brain in the process. Furthermore, #2 is out entirely as well, unless there are some pretty drastic changes to CONCORD policies. Having two or more simultaneously active clones is highly illegal and a " crime of the highest magnitude". To avoid this you'd need to "shut down" the clone inside the capsule, leaving your ship entirely defenseless. That really sounds like an absolutely wonderful idea to me. #3 is the most sensible: given the option of dying and losing your memories, causing CONCORD to crawl up your ass even more than they do already with all of the monitoring equipment stashed in our ships and capsules, or sending some expendable peons, what is any capsuleer with a brain going to do? That's right - they're going to use the redshirts. On the other hand, #3 also defeats the purpose of it being our own avatar doing things, which begs the question: if, god forbid, CCP decides to design this feature with the intent of remaining consistent with EVE's already-existing and long-established Prime Fiction, what the hell is the point of this kind of WiS content? The obvious resolution to this dilemma is to update the lore to say whatever we need it to say for the sake of good gameplay.
The other obvious solution is to design good gameplay around existing lore. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
786
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Posted - 2012.07.02 16:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:CCP RedDawn wrote:Just for reference sakes, if we went for your actual avatar use, I would not be voting for a permadeath. Maybe just a bad limp in the CQ. Have you given any thought to changing the appearance of an avatar after the player has been poded? I think for the first couple of days the avatar should be bald, skinny and pale.
I insure my clones have the proper hair style and have tanning lights installed in the tank, thank you very much.
The existing lore does include progress. Any additions to the lore that are consistent with that is already widely known and used by role players would be OK.
Gutting the entire lore framework to make one feature is not.
For example (as mentioned above) we could say the soft clone doing the exploring is active, or the main one in the pod is active, but not both. CONCORD then says this is legal, as it means your mind is only in one body at a time. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
786
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Posted - 2012.07.02 18:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Baneken wrote: Well that certainly sounds promising, I wonder if in future we could interact with DUST soldiers on stations, now that would be just awesome.
Could that be the reason why we aren't getting DUST for the PC? Because WiS will let us interact with DUST players in FPS style shooter mode? /me starts rumors
Please remember that with the eve server in one location and running with a one second update cycle that shooters will not work too well. Dust has multiple servers scattered about the planet (to reduce speed of light issues), and a faster cycle. (I assume you can only play dust vs players who are close to the same server you are on. Eve being world wide cannot have such a limitation) http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
792
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Posted - 2012.07.03 15:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP RedDawn wrote:.... I agree with you that sites should not only be available for nullsec players only. On the same note, nowhere have Team Avatar mentioned that sites should be nullsec specific. I don't know where this idea has sprung up from. ........ Its is a conclusion of talking about content where players can kill each other. Normally that would be considered low/null/w space content. In high sec you so much as web someone and you get concorded. It seems odd that there would be rules punish that, but will allow me to pod someone without concord consequences as long as it happens in a structure.
So the question becomes: In high sec, what are the rules about people who are not at war and in different corps shooting each other in these sites?
What would I want? The same as in space. In high sec you could be betrayed by a corp mate, you could get yourself flagged by stealing. Both could get you killed. Other than that when it comes to competitive interactions with other players, it will be who can get the goodies first. Just like current high sec exploration. There is plenty of low sec, null sec and W space for those who want less restrictions. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
802
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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:......
But seriously, yes, we felt that this kind of pricing made much more sense, and we see it in how the items are selling now, that once the price was brought down and we added interesting designs, people are buying them. We'd like to put out more distinctive stuff, like the full body rubber female suits seen on Singularity, and a full body female leather strap catsuit, both which are important work attire for any serious capsuleer. If the clothes we're putting out now at lower prices sell well, we are very likely to kick off the manufacturing pipeline again, where we were planning to do more exotic ( cyberpunk, pirate etc ) clothes, than the more plain business and military clothes we have now.
Maybe you could sneak some charts on Nex store sales into the dev blog please? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
810
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Posted - 2012.07.10 15:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Major Trant wrote: You are not hearing me. The tech isn't done. The project failed, they couldn't get it working. It isn't sitting there waiting for some switch to be thrown.
CCP have already stated that they have already had multiple avatars in a room together without any noticeable performance drops. They have also shown prototype "gameplay" (board games, social interaction) so i don't think you can say the tech isn't there yet. The question is - on what type of a machine? Because if it requires a relatively high-end PC to run it, that means most people won't be able to play it. I have a relatively high end machine, but my graphics card is ATI and as a result over a year later I am still getting artifacts and texture glitches and whatnot when using the avatar interface. Now imagine that this new gameplay is actually profitable, highly so, comparable to say Incursions pre-nerf or current wormholes. Except, unlike those, people with crappy PCs simply won't be able to participate, without paying out a considerable sum on upgrading. And in this economy, not many people have this kind of free floating cash. Imagine the outcry and mass cancellations from that? Yeeah.... Plus, like the blue fellow said earlier in the thread, he doesn't see people running around in structures 12 months from now even IF (and that's a big if) they were green-lit tomorrow and could staff the team in optimal way. At this point, my personal feeling about Incarna as a whole is "is it worth it any more?" Having an entire team spend 12+ months for a mechanic that not everyone will be able to use (hardware), not everyone will want to use (playstyle) and which could result in a negative feedback fallout (inability to use due to hardware limitations). Wouldn't that team be better used on some other facet of the game? No Because CCP already said the detail will be reduced with multiple avatars so the graphics requirements will remain reasonable. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
842
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Posted - 2012.07.23 16:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pugzilla Black wrote:While playing "The Sims in Space (stations)" would add much to the game for some people, you still have to ask the big question... Why would one who is an immortal god-like being want to step out of his pod and risk getting murdered?
The little suite you get now to walk around in has some very cool eye candy that I wish was more interactive. But walking out that door into the station could be deadly.
Please give me a reason to do so.
1) Large quantities of ISK, once CCP adds ways of getting it. 2) New things to do 3a) Risk mitigation changes to the game , like no mechanic for getting murdered in high sec stations 3b) An implant that does the scan-on-death thing like a pod, just not as well; you lose 1000 skill points. 3c) Just before you leave the pod a slow non-destructive scan is made of your brain. If you die you wake up in a clone with as many SP as you had when you left the pod.
If CCP wants up to be able to leave CQ with safety, they just need to add a new device to the lore that makes it possible. After all technology marches on, progress is to be expected.
Also that one room has more floor space than my entire house, and I got a big house. Pace it off. Its HUGE. ( I'm including the corridor and balcony).
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
843
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Posted - 2012.07.23 19:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: may i remember you that the hangar is not part of your CQ?
Im only including those places I can get to by walking. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
847
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Posted - 2012.07.23 21:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
About "is the WiS tech done, or not", my understanding is alot of the in-station assets for establishments and the like are done. The issue came up when they tried to get multiple avatars on one computer screen at once. The code they had could not do it, except with the very highest end machine. But its the same issue they need to solve to make WoD work, so that team has been hammering away on the issue. No need to have a Eve Online team working on that part at the same time. Supposedly things are getting done, and maybe sometime we will get to see it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
854
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Posted - 2012.07.25 20:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:This blog must be epic in size if they are taking this long to polish it.
Hopefully they have come to their senses are are going to open the door and use they assets which we know already exist.
I don't even care if it's an "enter at your own risk" senerio whereas it's accepted to be a test area for those who wish to try it out and offer feedback. Although alot of the assets are done, its not clear if there is enough done to have a system that works at any level. Additional effort would be needed, and we do not know how much, and if re-assigning Devs to get us something that works (and QA to insure it does not have any unintended consequences) would cause a major delay in getting a good WiS expansion in place.
But if its not too much effort, I would like to see that door open too. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
874
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Posted - 2012.08.01 15:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:...
We all know someone, or in my case many people who won't touch the game because you are "stuck in a ship" all the time. If people were given even the most basic avatar interaction to do when they needed a break from space EVE subs would be much higher than they are today.....
Oh, and where's that damn blog?!!! That would be by wife.
My guess is the percent women players would increase with the introduction of WiS. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
874
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Posted - 2012.08.01 16:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
As far as getting through the door, there is another issue for which we just do not know the status of: The state of the software. How close is it? It may be that Team Avatar sees all these requests for social spaces, went and asked the WoD folks how close the software is to allowing multiple interacting avatars, and were told "err...... come back in six months and we'll talk". Or maybe its quite close. We just do not know.
PLEX and Pay to Win: A good test to see if a feature is "Pay to Win":
If you do not do it, you are not relevant.
Many, many people in Eve are relevant without having to purchase a PLEX. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
875
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Posted - 2012.08.01 23:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
All the talk about how we are more than spaceships made me remember a comic strip I saw many years ago. I think it was called "May Stars!" The characters were all space objects, you never saw a person. They included:
A starship that looks like the original starship Enterprise A sentient asteroid A sailing ship ("Sail on! Sail on! I said." "Right over the edge?" " Yup, right over the edge".) The pod from 2001: A space odyssey ("Have you seen a monolith?" "Try the next transdimensional hyperspace duct on the left")
My google-fu was insufficient to find it. Anyone know if there is any record of it, anywhere? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
877
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Posted - 2012.08.02 16:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Time to start doing the only thing the corporate heads hear: Unsubbing accounts. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
877
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Posted - 2012.08.02 17:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Bayesian, can you tell us what Team Avatar is actually working on now? No details, just the area you are working on? Is it still some sort of avatar based play, or something else?
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
877
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Posted - 2012.08.02 17:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
It seems odd that CCP management has said they want to be more open and transparent to the community, but on this one issue we are all left in the dark. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
877
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Posted - 2012.08.02 17:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:[..... Bug fixing some stuff that has been left for a while whilst we were prototyping in earnest. .....
Summer vacation is nearly over so we'll get back into more meaty things shortly and will talk about what we can.
Thanks for that.
As for bugs... I remember when CQ first hit TQ that loading up CQ after docking was quite fast. Now its so slow that its rather annoying. The alt I play on most of the time is female, and looking at her is more pleasing to eye than her Domi. But if I want speed, I got to turn off CQ.
Maybe you can find the bug that's slowing down CQ loading and fix it? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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880
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Posted - 2012.08.02 20:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Murashu wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:Keep on being vocal about what you want to see happening in EVE.
We're not stopping work on anything, just not allowed to talk as openly as we have been and would like to about what we have been working on. I appreciate that's frustrating to everyone but we are going to continue working with everyone here at CCP to get something out there that shows you what we've been up to. It's important to me and the rest of Team Avatar too because we are proud of our work, think it's cool and want you guys to see it to demonstrate that we aren't all mouth and no trousers. Why the sudden gag order on something as big as WiS? I think it's a good thing. In the past CCP has been extremely open with us but there are just too many people that can't just look at the info and be happy or give constructive feedback. Too many are far too critical and make demands of CCP where they should have no right to do so. Dev blogs are still nice and updates on work in progress is cool but now CCP has to be careful of what they disclose for fear of everybody overreacting and throwing a tantrum. There may be some of that. Team Avatar has said there is currently no plans to implement their work into the game. Its more like they are making a proposal for a game expansion, and until that proposal has been accepted by management, management does not want the work published. The mere act of publishing it may make many think it has been accepted, and is coming.
On the other hand, at Fanfest they always show ideas for what might be coming, along with the disclaimer that inclusion of what is being shown is still being decided. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
882
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Posted - 2012.08.02 21:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote: There is also something else to consider: Besides the general slowdown because of summer vacation we are preparing for Inferno 1.2 and that means a high priority for messaging all the really amazing upcoming changes (Technetium changes, Mining barges, continued work on the V3 shaders, revamped tutorial, little and incredible useful things like improved fitting savings and a lot more).
Agreed. But that would be a reason for a 2 week delay, not have it "swallowed by the black hole of corporateness and won't be seeing the light of day for the foreseeable future". http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
882
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Posted - 2012.08.02 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
There is always the possibility that it was decided to release the social areas, delaying the exploration content, and thats why the exploration content blog got blocked. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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882
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Posted - 2012.08.02 22:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:There is always the possibility that it was decided to release the social areas, delaying the exploration content, and thats why the exploration content blog got blocked. i love how you think, but in this fugly universe the people who thinks like me are mostly right most of the time. Just wait to see what happens to EVE next year, when the Goons will be gone. Where are the goons going and why would they leave? Based on their past actions I see so much more people of the mind of the goons would do...... http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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906
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Posted - 2012.08.09 22:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
I agree. Also the pilot I play on most is female and looking at her is more pleasing to the eye than her Domi.
This is why I and many others would like to see some sort of multi-avatar area opened up, even if it would have meaningful play only for the role players. Of course bars with gambling would be nice too, and add more game play options.
And we still all wonder how close CCP got to being able to release all that before the summer of 2011 happened, and how close they are now given continued avatar development by the WoD team. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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910
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Posted - 2012.08.10 13:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Flamespar wrote:Actually I'm not sure where I got the idea from either.
I guess we're a bit desperate for some good news regarding Incarna in this thread. The little bits and pieces that have ended up on Tranquility are great don't get me wrong.
But you can't live on breadcrumbs alone. True, in terms of where we are it is just after the big summer exodus in the office and internally we're marshaling together the plan for the next few months in terms of what we will put together and release. Sleeve tattoos are definitely on the list for consideration with a big star and lots of arrows pointing at it. When we know precisely we'll let you guys know. What else has big stars and arrows pointing at it? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Vincent Athena
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915
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Posted - 2012.08.10 21:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Roime wrote:There are a million other things that could make EVE even greater, and much more easier to implement and better suitable to the current world. Why not focus on them, instead of tacking WiS clumsily into a spaceship game? Why add PI to the game when there other things they could be doing? Why add wormholes to the game when there other things they could be doing? Why re-do mining barges when there other things they could be doing? Why add FW to the game when there other things they could be doing?
Because all these are features that some subset of the players enjoy.
WiS is also a feature that some subset of the players would enjoy.
I still like the "vote with you money" idea. Part of our subscription goes to developing new features. Let every player say how their portion of their subscription is spent. That way everyone who dislikes WiS will know none of their money went to develop it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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916
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Posted - 2012.08.11 22:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:PI, WH, Mining Barges, FW are all spaceship related gameplay subsets in a spaceship game? So are spaceship pilots.
And Eve is not a spaceship game. It is a Sci Fi simulation game. How many Sci Fi movies or series have you seen where there was no scenes of people walking and interacting? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
919
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Posted - 2012.08.13 04:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Can't get this thought out of my head.
Dust players, new to the EVE universe, are going to be wandering about stations, visiting with each other, making conections, planning battles. They will likely be just socializing too.
So, at what point do they interact with Classic EVE players? Will they have to contact them through the forums?
Will they even bother trying to get to know any Classic EVE players, if they have to use forums or text chat while they themselfs can walk about chatting with voice?
It is going to be a tragic mistake if Classic EVE players and Dust514 players are not able to walk on stations together and connect from day one of the Dust release. So much opportunity will be lost.
Especially as they will supposedly be able to be in the same corps as us (although maybe not right away..) and call us in for orbital strikes. At least we will be sharing chat channels and eve voice.
As a WiS feature, a common "War room" would be nice.
But.. Its not clear if they will see each other anywhere other than the surface of a planet. In station they get quarters much like our CQ. Their door may well be locked too. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
919
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Posted - 2012.08.13 04:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:But.. Its not clear if they will see each other anywhere other than the surface of a planet. In station they get quarters much like our CQ. Their door may well be locked too. They have social areas. While we, who have paved the way for them, will need to wait 2-3 more years for such a feature. It`s such a frustrating load of crap. Really? I hope you did not violate a NDA there....
But maybe getting us into those same areas is going to happen when Dust goes public, and the reason for the dev blog disappearing. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.13 13:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think you need to be part of CCPs management to see a subscription curve. All we get is the number of accounts logged in, which has been relatively flat.
PLEX for WiS? I like the idea. But I tried to guess what it would take. 10 Devs for 6 months might be a minimum to push put something, and that would be about 50,000 PLEX.
Oh, and given the free giveaway Aurum and Aurum tokens, it would most likely have to be PLEX. Its the only thing in game directly tied to real money.
Edit: If we want to find if we can do this, I suggest Petitions. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.13 16:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:10 Devs for 6 months might be a minimum to push out something. The key issue in all things related to WiS is to define what this mythical something would be that would both add something useful and interesting while being able to interact with the rest of the game. Ones the game designers comes up with something that fits the bill then the issue of having it implented will be relativly easy. As a reference: A farmer had his tractor fixed by the local smith but was angy at the bill which read: "Replacing broken bolt: 50 coins" The farmer asked for a more specific bill and the smith sent a new one: "New bolt to replace a broken one: 1 coin, knowing which bolt to replace 49 coins". A situation we may be in. They got Dust players walking in station, in public areas. But that's in the Dust code. Getting that in the Eve code.... well we got no idea if that would be hard or easy.
But if its going to happen with the dust public roll-out (which I think they want to do for this winter's expansion) then we might see hints on Sisi soon, say in a month. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.16 20:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
This shows what WiS would look like with CCP's avatars and an actual person controlling them, in an actual station with other avatars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52FYhyla9EA
On the PS3 as part of dust.
The avatar in a station part is about half way though. It is in something called the Event Horizon Lounge. At one point you can even see a planet out a window. Note that CCP is handling the scene complexity issue by having avatars that are far away look like hollow shells. They are just reducing the resolution as needed to keep reasonable performance.
(How powerful is the graphics processor in a PS3 compared to what is in a typical PC?)
Its not clear to me if that lounge is only accessible when you first set up an account or if its always accessible. And we got no idea if the merger of Eve and Dust will let us pod pilots in there as well. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.16 22:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
From what? The dropping of Team Avatar's blog? That could also be read as:
"We do not want to put out a blog on wreck exploration with avatars when in just a few weeks Sisi will have avatars from eve and dust interacting. It will just get subscribers calling bait and switch, and we have had enough of that with avatar features already."
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.16 23:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:From what? The dropping of Team Avatar's blog? That could also be read as:
"We do not want to put out a blog on wreck exploration with avatars when in just a few weeks Sisi will have avatars from eve and dust interacting. It will just get subscribers calling bait and switch, and we have had enough of that with avatar features already."
We can only dream. If they drop Avatar interaction on us with the realease of Dust I will **** enough bricks of joy to build a full sized replica of the pyramid at Giza. You say that like the resulting pyramid would be a good thing. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.17 20:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP recently borrowed more money to finish Dust. If Dust were to fail, they might not be able to pay that money back.
The servers, ALL the servers could go dark soon after. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.17 21:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Also, based on some of the You-tube videos, there are battles vs NPCs that take place on planets in NPC null sec space. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.20 15:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: ...... When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, .........
Its on there right now. But you got to use a PS3 to access it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.20 16:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Actually, neither rendering engine is on Sisi. But multi-avatar areas are.
But your point has validity: When the server tells the dust client to render multiple avatars, UT3 can do it. If the server told the Eve client to render multiple avatars using Carbon... well hopefully CCP knows what happens.
Edits: Content and spelling http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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940
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Posted - 2012.08.21 05:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Is there something multi-avatar related on SiSi at the moment? Only in that Dust is on Sisi. Apparently there is something called the Event Horizon Lounge the dust players enter. In there are other avatars and even an NPC in it that looks like an Eve avatar that is wearing the same top-outer my avatar has. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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940
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Flamespar wrote:Is there something multi-avatar related on SiSi at the moment? Only in that Dust is on Sisi. Apparently there is something called the Event Horizon Lounge the dust players enter. In there are other avatars and even an NPC in it that looks like an Eve avatar that is wearing the same top-outer my avatar has. Are you trolling or they've finished the server updates since shutting down SiSi on Aug. 17th They are not done, but according to the Eve-online status monitor site, Sisi has been up with over 1000 players on it. I can only assume they are Dust players as we cannot get on it. Most likely some are Devs on the Eve side seeing what happens when Dust and Eve share one server with a linked database, and fixing issues.
I do not know how the Even Horizon Lounge fits in. On the You-tube video you can see an Eve like avatar for an NPC, a window looking at a planet, and a room that contains the game Slay. The video was showing "how to get your Dust code" so its not clear from it if once you get your code if you can ever return to the lounge. But if you cannot you are locked out of the game Slay, which supposedly if you win you get a free drop suit. That makes me think there is a way to get back there.
Once you are in Dust there is some sort of staging room that your team forms up in before starting a fight. That's in a station, so it is multiple avatars walking in station, although all in armor. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.21 16:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
Spaceships are not needed for a spaceship game either. When I was at CalTech we had multi-player spaceship combat games which were all text. No graphics of ships, no textures, no engine trails, and so on. Just tables of numbers.
Graphics of spaceships are not needed for space combat. We can do with just windows of text. But the game is far better with those graphics.
In the same way, avatars are not needed for personal interaction between players. We could do with just windows of text. But I think the game would be far better with those graphics.
Edit: In a couple of days when we get Sisi back I'd be stunned if the door is anything but locked. I see it being open as a possibility, but quite unlikely. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.22 13:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
JeanMichel Bizarre wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote:
This is still en-route and I'm currently trying to unclog the pipes that are holding the dev blog up. It's been delayed for so long now I'm going to update the pictures on it to something that's more representative of the current state of things!
You're correct though the gameplay we've been prototyping is based around cooperative gameplay in a hazardous environment. You'd be cooperating both in space and in the structure you were all walking around in though and there would still be the potential for conflict with other people in the structures you are exploring.
We're pretty excited about what we've come up with internally.
This sounds so fantastic I'm having a glorious stiffy. Er... you need to read all the dev posts. That blog got canned. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.22 14:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Its inaccessible for us. But if you look at http://eve-offline.net/?server=singularity you can see up to 2000 players have been on it. CCP Goliath just posted that it will be again accessible to Eve players on Monday. That's when we see what eve-dust interaction features have been turned on. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.23 15:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
"You feed the two engines the art work and geometry..."
That could be quite easy, or it could be a nightmare. The way the geometry is described might be totally incompatible between the two graphics engines, or quite compatible, or anything in between.
There is an NPC eve-like avatar in the event horizon lounge, one that wears the same top-outer as my avatar wears. So it is possible to migrate art assets from eve to PS3, but was that a one time really difficult dev hack, or was it easy?
I sure hope its easy, as it increases the chance that we get some sort of WiS sooner rather than later. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.23 16:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aye, PS3 is not CCP's carbon. I was just showing that some sort of migration of art assets has already happened. We just do not know what was done to make it happen. I could see the worst case being an artist totally rebuilt the asset from scratch, making it look the same. Best case is the art assets are copied over and then rendered with the different engine as best it can do. I assume if an eve avatar and a dust avatar met in a room, PS3 folks would see a low quality eve avatar, and we would see a high quality dust avatar.
Do Dust players do avatar creation like we do? Do they ever see their avatar without the armor on? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.28 17:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
No bone thrown to us on Sisi. The door remains closed. I even checked a station where the Dusters live between battles. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.08.30 20:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I wonder if social spaces will be moved up in priority due to the influx of Dust514 players and the need to allow them to meet and be ordered (and gun point if necessary) by EVE players. Be careful, they got bigger guns. Even on the planet they may have bigger guns. One of the trailers for Dust showed them alpha-striking a Moros.
In this video of dust;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ytXR6S34jw
At time 2:10 to 2:15 you get a view of the only WiS currently available on Sisi. It would be nice if we could walk into that same room and plan battles, or at least say hello. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.09.02 18:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
As anyone who plays the market knows, there is risk in eve other than having stuff blown up. How about looking at risk in Wis play other than death? Two examples Buying contraband "off the grid", getting caught and fined. Gambling.
In buying contraband, you may ask why it requires avatars walking about. For the same reason we have ships that got travel somewhere before they arrive: Time. Specifically, travel time is a game mechanic that adds risk.
The time it takes to get from the point of purchase of your illegal item to your ship is time for other players to figure out what you are up to and get ready for you when you undock. Travel time between purchase and getting out of the station adds risk.
For gambling, I think it would be better to walk along the promenade, looking at the gaming parlors, seeing who's where and whats available, rather than yet another spreadsheet.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.09.04 01:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
Do we know the subscription numbers? How? We know the number online, from http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility. Looking at that and online count has been fairly level for the last year. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.09.04 19:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: The promises they made before Incarna was only socialising and almost everybody liked it. After incarna ,well they have to deliver more, i guess. .....
Actually what I remember was: We would be able to set up establishments. In these establishments would be socializing, gambling, games like Slay, and the selling and buying of contraband items. Now lets say you put these contraband items in your ship and undocked. At the moment the NPCs might catch you. CCP wanted to turn that over to the players. They could scan your ship, and upon seeing contraband, give you the option of paying a "fine" or having your ship marked as Criminal, Free for All to Shoot.
You may ask why buying contraband would require walking as part of the game mechanic. Its for the same reason as our ships must first warp to a gate before jumping: Time. The time between buying the contraband and being able to undock gives time for others to get ready for you. For example, your "friendly" supplier can inform his friends in space that you are coming. The fact you cannot undock immediately gives them time to get into position.
Another reason to have buying of contraband occur with avatars is so other players in the establishment where you made the transaction can observe it, perhaps with devices they previously planted in the area. Devices you could find if you have the right skills and devices. To have this cat and mouse game of catching illegal acts, we need a game space for it to occur in.
There is also one reason to have just socializing areas before any meaningful gameplay: seeing if multi-avatar areas can be rendered on all the different hardware we players use. This is the heat and hardware issue. If we get multiple avatars on the screen at once, what works? What breaks? We want it to work before we get meaningful gameplay, and that means testing. Sisi does not cover sufficient people, we need it on TQ. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2012.09.30 02:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Irya Boone wrote: ok let's kill this thread the hard way .... ... How did you find my Recipe Book? While you were at the gambling tables and distracted he succeeded in attaching a hacking module to your data pad. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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